Tom Silverman has made his entire career in the music industry. Circa the early 80s he founded Dance Music Report, the New Music Seminar (NMS) and Tommy Boy Records, now Tommy Boy Entertainment, whose roster includes hip hop staples De La Soul, Naughty by Nature, House of Pain, and more. WE+PR, the public relations team who works with NMS, set up a phone interview for me with Silverman, who had tons to say about the music industry. Stream the full interview—all 55min—by pressing the play button to the ←left—or on Bandcamp.

Our interview took place on January 20, 2011. Later that night he would fly to France to attend MIDEM and I would drive with my dad to Philadelphia—fearless of impending snow—to see my cousin Sharon headline at Johnny Brenda’s. On the phone that afternoon, Silverman told me about some of his early experiences with Tommy Boy Records, thoughts on the current state of the industry, and about the then upcoming New Music Seminar in Los Angeles—NMS LA 2011 took place last week (February 14–16).

If you remember I’d attended NMS NYC 2010 last summer and had heard Silverman speak to the summer crowd inside Webster Hall. I can tell you he is extremely passionate about what’s right and wrong in the music industry, which you’ll be able to hear yourself as our conversation heats up through the interview. Below I’ve transcribed a few select moments.

08:00 Silverman: We aren’t selling records—we’re selling perception. The perceived value of music is 100 percent arbitrary.

09:30 Silverman: He [Steve Jobs] has to work with a gigantic lead time and drop new products every 3–6 months like we drop albums. We haven’t thought about the obsolescence of music [in the way that Jobs thinks about Apple's product lifecycles].

15:45 Silverman: [On iTunes] every time somebody coverts from buying songs to buying an album [Soundscan] deducts it from buying singles. It acts almost as if those singles hadn’t been bought. So if I bought two singles from an artist last year and then I bought the album this year, then that artist gets minus two singles. So that’s also had an impact. In 18 percent of iTunes sales, album sales are ‘complete my album’ sales, and with some artists it’s a lot more than that. So every time somebody completes an album it’s a minimun of one song, but most usually it’s two songs that are minused out. That’s had a major impact in turning song sales backwards, not because less songs are selling, but because single songs are being coverted into albums and then being deducted from singles.

16:45 Silverman: What’s happening right now is catalog sales are dropping off in singles and they’re slowing down substantially in albums (digital albums) because people have already rebought their collections in MP3 form—in digital form.

25:05 RVE: If you’re going to advertise anywhere I don’t know why you would do it anywhere besides Facebook—because of the way you can target stuff. [...] Say you’re in a rock band in New York City. You could target an ad on Facebook to people that like the Smashing Pumpkins that live in New York City that are between the age of 20–25. [...] I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy ads on Google. I know Google makes all this money from ads but I never click on them—I have clicked on Facebook ads.

34:10 RVE: I was reading about [Pablo Picaso] on Wikipedia and there’s so many things that correlate to the music industry. [...] They said the total number of artworks he produced is estimated at 50,000 which is a lot of pieces of [art] but he didn’t sell most of them. He had most of them in his possession when he died. He only sold the ones that he needed to sell to make money. The rest of them he kept because…I guess he just wanted to keep them or was just to busy making art. He wasn’t really concerned with it. I wonder if today if he’d be like taking pictures of it and uploading pictures of it to Flickr…or you know? Also they said that his art has been stolen more than any other artist in the world. [...] He’s pretty much referred to as the most famous artist.

35:35 Silverman: There’s influential art and there’s popular art. Just because it’s popular it doesnn’t necessarily mean that it’s important but it does mean something. Margaret Mead, the famous cultural anthropologist, said “never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world—indeed it is the only thing that ever has.” The point is it’s always a small group of people that make all the change. [...] Kind of like Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, and Grandmaster Flash all in the Bronx doing hip hop and nobody else in the world was doing hip hop—it changed the whole world really but it came from a 5-mile radius.

36:45 RVE: People would probably want me to ask about what you said in the Wired interview last year about most albums being just “noise” from “hobbyists” that clutters the marketplace. I mean I think that came across as kind of like a negative outlook to a lot of people, but I was thinking, aren’t really—I mean a hobbyist is really someone that just does something for pleasure. I think it has sort of a negative connotation [...] but aren’t the hobbyists the ones really driving musical innovation, or don’t you think they’re playing a big part in that?

37:30 Silverman: It doesn’t seem like they are. I always believed that they would be but it doesn’t seem like they are. Why isn’t any of that stuff breaking through? I mean if it’s that fantastic, it’s findable, everything findable, somebody’s got to discover it, and the word needs to spread. Why isn’t all this fantastic, creative, amazing art coming out musically through the web where everything is available accoding to the long-tail theory.

38:00 RVE: You want to think the cream will rise to the top.

38:03 Silverman: And it’s not happening. In fact not only is it not happening, it happened more before there was an internet than it’s happening now. I can tell you when Afrika Bambaataa came out with “Planet Rock” it rose to the top and I had only one or two employees working with me and we ended up selling 600,000 twelve inches. The cream rose to the top better then than it does now.

39:00 RVE: People like choices. Me, I don’t want to hear something that’s like everything else. I want to find [music] that’s different, the stuff that’s cutting-edge, and the stuff that’s changing. I mean there’s so many like generic…I mean there’s a lot stuff that just sounds generic. When you find something that’s really unique, really good, then it’s awesome. The more people you have making music the more likely that’s going to happen.

39:40 Silverman: Definitely there’s five times as many people making music now than there was 10 years ago. There should be five times as many great pieces of music coming through than ever. But the opposite is true. [...] In 2008 there were 1,500 releases that sold over 10,000 units. In 2009 that number dropped to 1,300. In 2008 there were about 200 artists who broke 10,000 for the first time. Less than eight of them were DIY artists that broke on their own or on very small indie labels. [... ] Eight artists breaking on brand-new or on their own labels is pathetic!

41:50 Silverman: Using samples, moving around samples, and working with Garage Band is kind of like the musical equivalent of color by numbers. [...] You don’t have to be able to play an instrument really. You don’t have to be an amazing engineer. You don’t have to go into a studio and know how mic’s work. Anyone can do it. It’s a two-edged sword. On one edge it gives power to the people and on the other edge it gives power to the people who have no abilities.

42:50 RVE: I’d rather have a world where anyone can make music. [...] I think stuff gets filtered by people’s friends. I think people say “hey did you listen to this?” I think that’s still going on but I think it’s going on Facebook and in text messages—I think it’s still going on in person too but it’s also happening on Facebook [...] because it’s easy to share stuff. I think the stuff that’s getting shared more is the stuff that has more readily available in a “content” format.

48:25 RVE: Every TED video that gets recorded goes on YouTube and is available for free…why not do that for NMS?

48:35 Silverman: You know what if I could charge $5,000 like TED charges for people that come and have a waiting list then I’d put everything up there [on YouTube].

48:55 RVE: The way I see it though it doesn’t cost you anything extra to put it on YouTube, right? Wouldn’t it be free promotion?

49:02 Silverman: If we put it on YouTube and people see that then they don’t have to come to the conference. Then it does cost me something because our numbers will go down even further and we won’t be able to afford to do the conference.

49:17 RVE: The New York one [last summer] sold out, right?

49:20 Silverman: It sold out but it sold out at such a low price. [...] It’s a marginal business. Let’s put it this way. Nobody makes money at the New Music Seminar.

52:50 RVE: I just feel like instead of listening to those baby-boomer generation executives I’d rather listen to their kids because I think that’s where you’re really going to learn stuff.

53:03 Silverman: I hear you but nobody’s going to pay to hear their kids talk [at NMS].

// NMS NYC 2010 and NMS LA 2011 both sold out. I think unleashing all the keynotes on YouTube would increase attendance—do you? Who’d you like to see speak at the next NMS?

Considering what is already be done with modern audio devices, it’s far from a stretch. For the best quality, I think it would need to start from the source, the master recordings, which could be released in full dynamic form. Do you think it’s possible? I do. Do you think it’ll happen? Audiophiles would love it, but what about the general listener?

Imagine a stereo that had a slider on it for compression, where a listener could slide anywhere on the compression spectrum from full dynamic range to max loudness. What issues do you think come into play? Who should control dynamics? Rather, what industry standards need to be morphed, and which ones needs to be muted?

Judo Paris Grand Slam 2010. (Flickr/ryusha)

Now if I got an email explicitly saying “you’re breaking our rules and we’re going to shut you down” then I would react immediately but apparently these bloggers missed this chance. I’m sure Blogger’s TOS states that they have the right to delete violating blogs, and to protect themselves legally they delete them. But I find it hard to believe Google didn’t warn them. I think the bloggers had to have known they were in a legal gray area. They should have exported a backup of their blog.

The DMCA’s ‘safe harbors’ for online service providers give linkers a strong incentive to remove links upon receiving a DMCA takedown notice, because if they do so, they are protected from paying damages in any copyright infringement case. (EFF attorney Fred von Lohmann via BoingBoing in 2006)

Regardless of whether we may be liable for such infringement under local country law or United States law, our response to these notices may include removing or disabling access to material claimed to be the subject of infringing activity and/or terminating subscribers. If we remove or disable access in response to such a notice, we will make a good-faith attempt to contact the owner or administrator of the affected site or content so that they may make a counter notification. (Google)

We need better laws surrounding internet music journalism that reflect today’s Internet behavior. We need better education regarding copyright so that writers know how to properly license intellectual property. Oftentimes music bloggers have gained permission to include mp3′s directly from the artist or their record label. The same may even go for some YouTube videos that have had their audio removed due to “copyright infringement.” Is anyone asking the artists or contacting the uploader first? Who exactly is making the complaints? Theoretically the DMCA criminalizes anti-DRM tactics and copyright infringement. In practice, is it working—or rather—is it worth it?

The trouble with filing a formal, legal DMCA counter-claim is, that most bloggers don’t know how. What’s more, many of Blogger’s DMCA notices allegedly omit the name of the offending song. Bloggers aren’t even sure what they are denying. (The Guardian)

From what’s being talked about from the blogs that did have their content removed, it sounds like the newer system (unlike the old system) did alert them to what was happening, but they just felt hopeless to respond. Google has put up a response, basically saying that if it doesn’t receive a counternotice, and it keeps getting DMCA takedowns on the same account, eventually it takes the blog down as a “repeat offender.” So we’re back to the point that I predicted in August, where your average everyday blogger has no idea what a DMCA counternotice is and how to use it — so it would be much better if Google made the process of filing such a counternotice a lot more intuitive. (Techdirt)

In order to prevent any legal confusion, I would include a disclaimer making it painfully obvious that that the artist (or label) gave permission to have the mp3 on the blog. Even better, I would use legal embedding tools such as Bandcamp, Soundcloud, or Grooveshark as opposed to a direct link to an .mp3 file. This saves bandwidth and covers your a**. In the case of Bandcamp, you would be helping the artist because Bandcamp downloads usually require an email address and ZIP code giving bands a direct connection to their fans and valuable location data. I think most Bandcamp artists would happily issue free download codes to mp3 bloggers. Another route would be to use Creative Commons-licensed content—there’s plenty of CC-licensed content on Jamendo.

All that said, the best solution is to set up a blog on your own domain with an opensource blogging platform like WordPress. But even still you should backup your posts. Blogger and WordPress both support exporting (backing-up) into a transferable .xml file. Mini-blogging platforms Tumblr and Posterous are also good free alternatives—Posterous supports transferring from another blog but I don’t think Tumblr does yet. See Mashable’s head-to-head comparison. Squarespace is a paid service that supports importing and is also worth considering as an out-of-the-box solution.

If you’re already using WordPress on a WordPress.com blog, I recommend buying your own domain and hosting. You remain in more control that way. Buy your hosting separately from your domain though—most domain registration services offer cheap hosting that sucks as an upsell. It’s worth paying for good hosting. Of course the DMCA could issue a complaint to you through you or your host, but it’s less likely and the complaint would be more direct to you and not through a 3rd party.

Update 2/12/09: Last night Google put back one of the deleted blogs and updated their response:

Human Brain Connections by ethanhein on flickr

Related Posts

• Music Consumption in a 180°—Terry McBride Interviews.
• Musicians—Money Is Not Motivation
• Social Rocks. Mobility Rolls. Music Trends 2009–2010.

Tweets about Apple acquiring Lala have been flooding Twitter for 3+ days now. A number of sources have provided news and analysis on the acquisition. Personally I think Apple aims to move iTunes to the web in an effort to control mobile cloud-based music streaming via iPhones and iPods. Mobility is paramount, and I think that buying Lala was a sound move for Apple. By combining the best features of iTunes and Lala, Apple should be able to make a more seamless streaming experience with a simpler payment process—a simple payment process leads to more people buying. You can bet there will be an iPhone app that enables buying and simplifies the buying process.

Die-hard Lala users hope that Apple will keep Lala’s key features in tact, and many are looking forward to new feature possibilities. Hopefully with the help of its Lala’s developers, Apple will be able to build onto Lala’s platform making music more accessible. Lala enables users to upload mp3′s from their computer so they can access them from anywhere through their Lala account. In Lala’s words, “Play it anywhere on the web. Most of your music will be matched to Lala’s catalog [and] any remaining unmatched MP3s can be uploaded to Lala.”

A massive user-submitted music library is being built in the cloud. What I’d really like to see is for everyone’s uploads to be available to everyone, much like they are in Grooveshark—a free music streaming service that lets users upload tracks to the cloud. Let’s compare their relative popularity with other some streaming/download services—Spotify, MOG, and Amie Street—in the graph below:

What’s worth noting about MOG having the most visitors is that MOG markets itself more as a social network—their tagline is “Discover People Through Music and Music Through People.” Having social features clearly plays a big role in web-based music discovery—it’s social music discovery. Extended stats and analysis are to follow in Part 2 later this week.

• Photo: Lala Apple Logo Mashup by VirtualMusictv/Flickr
• View Lala screenshots.

With the smartphones coming, and all these apps coming, the music business gets one more kick at the can, and I hope they don’t fight this one, because there’s a huge opportune to grow the business faster than what they’ve ever considered. I think there’s a huge sense of optimism for the first time in about five years that this business can actually grow. –Terry McBride in his 2009 interview with tech reporter Matt Hartley [video above].

Music is becoming more of a service than a product and Terry believes that in these digital times, context trumps content, access trumps ownership, and customer service is as important as ever. P2P filesharing should cease to be an issue as listeners increasingly prefer instant-access streams.

The second interview details the history of the Nettwerk Music Group as a DIY all-in-one company that developed by adapting to meet the needs of musicians and their fans. Towards the end he talks about joint ventures between musicians and non-music brands as being likely in the next five years.

I really think that the paradigm is shifting. I think within the next five years you’re going to have other brands inside the market signing artists. Brands will look at this going, well, we already use music within all of our TV, and radio, and, you know, internet media. Um, why don’t we just sign the artist? –Terry McBride, in his 2008 CMU-Tube interview [video below].

On my previous post, Musicians—Money Is Not Motivation, Dave MacDonald had commented that Terry McBride recently spoke positively about the music industry at TEDxVancouver in November 2009. That video isn’t available yet, but I hope they air it soon on TEDxTalks—I’ll keep you posted.

[homepage thumbnail photo: Flickr/stephen_dyrgas]

Last Friday I got into a discussion with James Marshall (@infinitestylez) about issues facing musicians in the current state of the industry. I had tweeted two links and James replied stating, “The internet is destroyin’ industries we all love.” It sparked a bit of a debate at first—my stance is that the internet is changing the music business for the better—but we found some common ground along the way. We talked about promotion, talent, middle-men, costs, and the viability of alternate revenue sources like subscriptions and endorsements. We decided to post the discussion here where it can benefit the community, and we want to hear your opinions in the comment section. Have a read below of the entire conversation, which went from tweets to DM’s to emails.

About James Marshall: I’m a hip-hop artist local to Detroit, 25 years old, and with 7 years experience in hip-hop. “I don’t care if you don’t love me, I don’t care if you don’t date me. Fear me, whatever, respect me…hate me as long as you pay me.”

About Ryan Van Etten: I’m a 30 y.o. writer/editor on virtualmusic.tv, an engineer, DIY multimedia producer, and the indie eclectic-rock artist from The Spin Arounds and Crimson Road. “I try to reinvent myself each day like the turn of a kaleidoscope.”

We’re running an image series, called Photo Journal, where we showcase live music photos, deviations, and digital artwork relating to music, arts, virtuality, and technology. The is an open-ended topic so feel free to be as creative. Since we want to promote both digital artwork and openness, we urge photographers and artists to release their images under these Creative Commons license terms.

Submitting Images

Photographers/artists can submit photos to our Flickr Group and/or write to us at art@virtualmusic.tv. If sending photos, please include the following info:

• Artist Name or Username
• Image Title and Description (Optional)
• Image Link (on Flickr etc.)