Tom Silverman has made his entire career in the music industry. Circa the early 80s he founded Dance Music Report, the New Music Seminar (NMS) and Tommy Boy Records, now Tommy Boy Entertainment, whose roster includes hip hop staples De La Soul, Naughty by Nature, House of Pain, and more. WE+PR, the public relations team who works with NMS, set up a phone interview for me with Silverman, who had tons to say about the music industry. Stream the full interview—all 55min—by pressing the play button to the ←left—or on Bandcamp.

Our interview took place on January 20, 2011. Later that night he would fly to France to attend MIDEM and I would drive with my dad to Philadelphia—fearless of impending snow—to see my cousin Sharon headline at Johnny Brenda’s. On the phone that afternoon, Silverman told me about some of his early experiences with Tommy Boy Records, thoughts on the current state of the industry, and about the then upcoming New Music Seminar in Los Angeles—NMS LA 2011 took place last week (February 14–16).

If you remember I’d attended NMS NYC 2010 last summer and had heard Silverman speak to the summer crowd inside Webster Hall. I can tell you he is extremely passionate about what’s right and wrong in the music industry, which you’ll be able to hear yourself as our conversation heats up through the interview. Below I’ve transcribed a few select moments.

08:00 Silverman: We aren’t selling records—we’re selling perception. The perceived value of music is 100 percent arbitrary.

09:30 Silverman: He [Steve Jobs] has to work with a gigantic lead time and drop new products every 3–6 months like we drop albums. We haven’t thought about the obsolescence of music [in the way that Jobs thinks about Apple's product lifecycles].

15:45 Silverman: [On iTunes] every time somebody coverts from buying songs to buying an album [Soundscan] deducts it from buying singles. It acts almost as if those singles hadn’t been bought. So if I bought two singles from an artist last year and then I bought the album this year, then that artist gets minus two singles. So that’s also had an impact. In 18 percent of iTunes sales, album sales are ‘complete my album’ sales, and with some artists it’s a lot more than that. So every time somebody completes an album it’s a minimun of one song, but most usually it’s two songs that are minused out. That’s had a major impact in turning song sales backwards, not because less songs are selling, but because single songs are being coverted into albums and then being deducted from singles.

16:45 Silverman: What’s happening right now is catalog sales are dropping off in singles and they’re slowing down substantially in albums (digital albums) because people have already rebought their collections in MP3 form—in digital form.

25:05 RVE: If you’re going to advertise anywhere I don’t know why you would do it anywhere besides Facebook—because of the way you can target stuff. [...] Say you’re in a rock band in New York City. You could target an ad on Facebook to people that like the Smashing Pumpkins that live in New York City that are between the age of 20–25. [...] I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy ads on Google. I know Google makes all this money from ads but I never click on them—I have clicked on Facebook ads.

34:10 RVE: I was reading about [Pablo Picaso] on Wikipedia and there’s so many things that correlate to the music industry. [...] They said the total number of artworks he produced is estimated at 50,000 which is a lot of pieces of [art] but he didn’t sell most of them. He had most of them in his possession when he died. He only sold the ones that he needed to sell to make money. The rest of them he kept because…I guess he just wanted to keep them or was just to busy making art. He wasn’t really concerned with it. I wonder if today if he’d be like taking pictures of it and uploading pictures of it to Flickr…or you know? Also they said that his art has been stolen more than any other artist in the world. [...] He’s pretty much referred to as the most famous artist.

35:35 Silverman: There’s influential art and there’s popular art. Just because it’s popular it doesnn’t necessarily mean that it’s important but it does mean something. Margaret Mead, the famous cultural anthropologist, said “never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world—indeed it is the only thing that ever has.” The point is it’s always a small group of people that make all the change. [...] Kind of like Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, and Grandmaster Flash all in the Bronx doing hip hop and nobody else in the world was doing hip hop—it changed the whole world really but it came from a 5-mile radius.

36:45 RVE: People would probably want me to ask about what you said in the Wired interview last year about most albums being just “noise” from “hobbyists” that clutters the marketplace. I mean I think that came across as kind of like a negative outlook to a lot of people, but I was thinking, aren’t really—I mean a hobbyist is really someone that just does something for pleasure. I think it has sort of a negative connotation [...] but aren’t the hobbyists the ones really driving musical innovation, or don’t you think they’re playing a big part in that?

37:30 Silverman: It doesn’t seem like they are. I always believed that they would be but it doesn’t seem like they are. Why isn’t any of that stuff breaking through? I mean if it’s that fantastic, it’s findable, everything findable, somebody’s got to discover it, and the word needs to spread. Why isn’t all this fantastic, creative, amazing art coming out musically through the web where everything is available accoding to the long-tail theory.

38:00 RVE: You want to think the cream will rise to the top.

38:03 Silverman: And it’s not happening. In fact not only is it not happening, it happened more before there was an internet than it’s happening now. I can tell you when Afrika Bambaataa came out with “Planet Rock” it rose to the top and I had only one or two employees working with me and we ended up selling 600,000 twelve inches. The cream rose to the top better then than it does now.

39:00 RVE: People like choices. Me, I don’t want to hear something that’s like everything else. I want to find [music] that’s different, the stuff that’s cutting-edge, and the stuff that’s changing. I mean there’s so many like generic…I mean there’s a lot stuff that just sounds generic. When you find something that’s really unique, really good, then it’s awesome. The more people you have making music the more likely that’s going to happen.

39:40 Silverman: Definitely there’s five times as many people making music now than there was 10 years ago. There should be five times as many great pieces of music coming through than ever. But the opposite is true. [...] In 2008 there were 1,500 releases that sold over 10,000 units. In 2009 that number dropped to 1,300. In 2008 there were about 200 artists who broke 10,000 for the first time. Less than eight of them were DIY artists that broke on their own or on very small indie labels. [... ] Eight artists breaking on brand-new or on their own labels is pathetic!

41:50 Silverman: Using samples, moving around samples, and working with Garage Band is kind of like the musical equivalent of color by numbers. [...] You don’t have to be able to play an instrument really. You don’t have to be an amazing engineer. You don’t have to go into a studio and know how mic’s work. Anyone can do it. It’s a two-edged sword. On one edge it gives power to the people and on the other edge it gives power to the people who have no abilities.

42:50 RVE: I’d rather have a world where anyone can make music. [...] I think stuff gets filtered by people’s friends. I think people say “hey did you listen to this?” I think that’s still going on but I think it’s going on Facebook and in text messages—I think it’s still going on in person too but it’s also happening on Facebook [...] because it’s easy to share stuff. I think the stuff that’s getting shared more is the stuff that has more readily available in a “content” format.

48:25 RVE: Every TED video that gets recorded goes on YouTube and is available for free…why not do that for NMS?

48:35 Silverman: You know what if I could charge $5,000 like TED charges for people that come and have a waiting list then I’d put everything up there [on YouTube].

48:55 RVE: The way I see it though it doesn’t cost you anything extra to put it on YouTube, right? Wouldn’t it be free promotion?

49:02 Silverman: If we put it on YouTube and people see that then they don’t have to come to the conference. Then it does cost me something because our numbers will go down even further and we won’t be able to afford to do the conference.

49:17 RVE: The New York one [last summer] sold out, right?

49:20 Silverman: It sold out but it sold out at such a low price. [...] It’s a marginal business. Let’s put it this way. Nobody makes money at the New Music Seminar.

52:50 RVE: I just feel like instead of listening to those baby-boomer generation executives I’d rather listen to their kids because I think that’s where you’re really going to learn stuff.

53:03 Silverman: I hear you but nobody’s going to pay to hear their kids talk [at NMS].

// NMS NYC 2010 and NMS LA 2011 both sold out. I think unleashing all the keynotes on YouTube would increase attendance—do you? Who’d you like to see speak at the next NMS?

If they’re stealing from you, then you’re on the right track.

“You’ve just got to be open and free, because that’s the way people want to get content on the web”, says Dallas Penn. “Don’t be afraid of someone stealing your work so much, just have more work to give, and, if people are stealing it, you know what you’re onto something. You’re moving in the right direction.” continued Penn, who runs the vlog internetscelebrities.com. Frank Talk summarized it in poetic terms, “If they’re stealing from you, [then] you’re on the right track.”

Everything can be adapted into digital content—think YouTube or think Flickr. Take hip hop producer Oddisee, who describes his internet-centralized strategy as being circular, wearing many hats, and promoting himself with content: “Everything I do is circulatory…You can’t just rap, you can’t just make beats, you can’t just do one thing anymore. It’s just impossible.” Oddisee uses free content as a means of promoting paid content. He distributes his music via oddisee.bandcamp.com.

If I Ruled the Blogosphere was a panel discussion hosted last month by the Future of Music Coalition and Words Beats & Life. The talk covers many sides of producing/curating music-related content on the web. It’s a bit long—in two parts below—and includes Q&A in Part 2. But when it came up in my Reader feed (via Digipendent) I put it on play while I was working and listened to it all. Anyone involved in blogging, music, or using the internet—pretty much everyone—should find insight from it.

The price of music on the web is heading towards zero. Artists need to use the web to centralize their fan base and reach out to them. But for that to work, fans need to connect with the individual as much—or more than—the music itself. “If people invest in you as an individual before they invest in you as an artist…you know…I mean’s there’s a lot of talented rappers out there…there’s a lot of talented poets…you know…painters…illustrators, but if nobody can connect with that person’s individual story, then they’re just another person doing it.” says blogger FWMJ of Rappers I Know.

As far as avoiding blog shutdowns, Meka Udoh from 2dopeboyz.com encouraged embedding players from other sites rather than posting mp3′s on your own server. I gave similar advice in February when several blogs were shutdown because of the DMCA. Especially in the case of Bandcamp embeds, the data goes back to the artist. It’s a win-win-win—it helps the blogger, the readers, and the artist.

Style-wise how does iMatik compare to your previous albums?

TF: Well, I usually produce hip hop and rap albums that are vocal-based, with verses and choruses, etc. I thought about getting a bunch of artists to add vocals to the album, but once I started actually working on it, I thought the vibe was more upbeat than most of my other work. I used to love instrumental “Scratch DJ” albums like DJ Shadow, Invisible Skratch Picklz, etc. and thought maybe I could go in this direction.

Once I found Flare, the iPhone app that is remarkably like a real vinyl turntable and mixer, and found out how realistic it sounded, plus that it allows you to upload your own samples, I knew what I was going to do. I used to have a DJ rig when I was younger, and knew a little bit about scratching, so I just made it work with an iPhone.

I really love the result, since most of my other music is dark or just plain strange, and this album immediately seems to make friends with people, instead of scare them off!

Mobility is the obvious advantage to iPhone music creation, but how do iPhone apps compare feature-wise to software and drum machines?

TF: There are some limitations on the iPhone that are hard to overcome. The biggest issue is pressure sensitivity. Not having pressure sensitivity takes a lot away from the expressiveness of an instrument, since each note comes out with the same volume and timbre. There are ways to overcome this though, such as programming individual sounds to play just right, or editing velocity after the performance, on apps like Beatmaker that support velocity editing. Also, just picking the right sound sometimes is the solution without having control over volume, some sounds are better suited to fitting in, or can be edited to fit.

The second, and more obvious disadvantage, is the small screen. I can’t tell you how many times I pressed the wrong drum sound or key, and had to go back and try again. This is just something you have to live with if you are doing music on a phone, although some apps allow you to adjust the size of the playing area to try and make it easier. For me, the solution to this problem is in the iPad, which I am foaming at the mouth for already!

Besides these two limitations, it is amazing how much sound quality, programmability, and depth some of these apps have! Especially Intua Beatmaker, which allows you to import/export any sounds you want via wireless, so you can program sounds in your computer and load them on your iPhone. This is an area I just brushed the surface of.

You mentioned Beatmaker, iDrum, Flare, and Jasuto—can you give us a breakdown on the advantages of each app?

TF: Sure:

Beatmaker is definitely the most “pro” as far as looking and feeling like a real production device. It is very similar to an MPC with some of it’s functionality, having a 4 x 4 grid of pads to work with, and being able to assign anything to those pads. Beatmaker’s sequencer also lets you build complex arrangements, so if you really want a program that will mimic a computer application like Fruityloops or Reason for example, this will come the closest to doing that. iTunes link

iDrum was my first favorite, because it’s so easy to get hooked on its simple, fun, step sequencer. The main method of programming beats with this device is a visual grid of buttons that represent a note value—mainly sixteenth notes—that you can touch and they light up. When the button is lit that means it will play on that step each time around. You can use common iPhone motions like finger sweeps and shaking to get around in the sequencer. There’s an option for realtime sequencing as well. The built in sounds were awesome and well programmed, so even though I could have used my own huge arsenal of sounds on my main computer, I found using the built-in sounds almost always got me the sound I was looking for. iTunes link

Flare is the ultimate iPhone DJ app. It is a lot like having a mini actual turntable on your phone, with a built in DJ scratch mixer with features useful to a DJ. I used the mixer in hamster-switch mode for most of my scratching, since it allows you to punch in just little snippets of audio. The feature that truly makes this app amazing is it that enables wireless upload of any audio file you want to use. I grabbed weird found sounds, movie samples, old beats, just about anything I could think of, and uploaded it into the phone to scratch with. iTunes link

Jasuto is crazy—it is a modular synth and effects-creation environment on your phone! You can drag and drop modules such as oscillators, compressors, delays, and route or key them from all types of things. I’m a bit of a caveman when it comes to this stuff, so I just dragged objects until it made crazy sounds, and used that. In the future I plan on trying harder to learn how to use this app more, since I think the idea is so amazing! iTunes link

My desert island app is definitely Intua Beatmaker. That’s the one I can sit down with anywhere and feel like I’m in the studio.

What features would like to see in the next round of music production apps?

TF: I think everything right now regarding mobile music apps is limited to screen size. That is such a limiting factor, since you can’t add a lot of buttons or menus in a small area without killing the fun. So when the iPad is released, I really hope application developers take advantage of the screen real estate, and make apps that offer more features visible without having to hunt through menus. Also I hope apps start taking more advantage of the gyroscopic features of the iPhone—like I would want to be able to wave or tilt the phone to control filter frequencies, etc.

What’s your beat-making software of choice in the studio?

TF: It’s a toss-up between Reason and Ableton Live, and now sometimes Logic. My day job is testing music software, so I know all the apps, and I love little things about all the apps that keeps me switching from one to the other. I guess I would choose Reason just because I am almost guaranteed to not crash my system with that!

Do you prefer programming the beats or recording them live with your fingers? What’s easier on the iPhone?

TF: I’ve always been more of a live-recording guy, coming from a bass-playing background, so I usually record in realtime. But on some apps like iDrum, they make step sequencing so fun, I ended up doing a lot of that too. This album definitely has way more step-sequenced parts than I usually make.

Did you transfer the iMatik album tracks to your computer to do post-production, or was everything done on the iPhone?

TF: Yes, everything was transferred to a Mac Pro running Cubase 5, which is my main recording app, and I just used the computer like a tape machine. I used a mini-dual 1/4″ cable to get everything over to my Universal Audio 2108 stereo preamp, and tracked everything in using that, since it usually sounds great with line level sources.

Because the iPhone does not have the ability to run two apps simultaneously, I realized all overdubs would have to be done using a separate app. To me this still fits in with the mentality of an iPhone-only album, just like a saxophone-only album could be tracked into a recording app and still be considered “pure” if there’s anything “pure” anyway about an album made on a phone. ;-)

I used plugins and hardware in the mixdown, most notably a Summit DCL-200 on mix buss, Universal Audio EMT 250 and 140 for reverbs, and during the mastering phase I used the new UA Manley Massive EQ plugin, which sounded amazing!

What was the weirdest place you created a song with the iPhone?

TF: Well, since my commute to work is really far, and my girlfriend lives even farther away, I find myself staying in motels on a regular basis, just to make things work. It is usually a weird but fun feeling to be in some strange motel, sitting on the bed, with a basketball game on or something, and me with my headphones on making a beat.

I went to Mavericks surf competition recently, and the waves were so amazing I didn’t really use the phone a lot, but that was also a cool place to make a beat. The funniest place is probably making a beat while waiting at a place like Applebee’s or something—it’s just cheesy enough to work!

How long did it take you to make iMatik?

TF: About 4 months (3 months to make the initial beats and songs, and 1 month for overdubs, mixing, mastering, etc.) Really at first I didn’t start it as a serious project, I just started doing it because it was fun. But then I got, uh, kind of addicted to it, so I figured I might as well make it into an album!

In what ways do you think the iPhone is changing music production and the music industry?

TF: Well for one thing, I grew up with old drum machines, and none of them ever had wireless or 3G! Now I can upload any sound I want to a little device that I can carry with me. Sure, you can make music with a laptop, but that still involves wires, powercords, etc. Once the iPad comes out, and developers make the next generation of music apps, I think making music on a mobile device is going to explode.

What’s your take on touchscreens in general? Will computer keyboard/mice become things of the past?

TF: I don’t know, because I still hate typing on the iPhone. I always am missing the letter I was trying to hit. There is something about the tactile response of a keyboard that I love, so as far as communicating, I would still want an actual keyboard. The mouse on the other hand, I wouldn’t miss at all! It has been a great run for the mouse, and maybe for pinpoint accuracy in some apps, the mouse will always be needed by some people, but I hope to not need one in the future.

For music production, though, touchscreens are so necessary, due to the need to control multiple parameters at once.

Are there any up-and-coming local artists in the SF Bay area music scene that we should know about?

TF: Well I’ve been working with a lot of cats from the Hayward and Oakland areas, and they are mostly just kids, but I’ve never seen a more hungry group of talented individuals in my life. I just hope they can work together a little bit more to bring everyone up. Rappers like Too Much, The Kid AY, The Scholars, Studio Pete, New New, etc. Also from the South Bay I gotta give a shout out to Brycentenial, the workhorse in the south bay, Big Blac, No Mercy Records, Magruff Muttley, Marcus Weezy, and the list goes on and on.

Many people don’t know how to react—a sign of great art—and many are obsessed. Albeit R-rated, Enter The Ninja is uplifting and upbeat. It has all the key components to music video greatness—originality, emotion, energy, dance moves, realism, symbolism, shock value, humor, balance, and masterful execution. It’s a musical blend of deft artistic expression formed by four creative friends having fun. On DieAntwoord.com you can listen to their 16-track beat-heavy album $O$. The site is in-your-face artistic euro-style and includes 20 fun facts about the Zef-rap crew, which consists of dynamic rapper frontman Ninja (Waddy Jones), sexy profane blonde singer Yo-Landi Vi$$er, and PC-beatmaker DJ Hi-Tek. Also appearing in the crew is Leon Botha—a Cape Town artist with the hyper-aging disease progeria. Each member is a unique persona fueled by their own inner Zef—a term best described by Ninja in the video interview below the break. Ninja says, “If you love it, we love you too, and if you hate it, it’s because you’re not on my level.” Pitchfork posted an email interview.

Ninja has sculpted, both with his flesh and his music, the ultimate South African. He is everything in the country, “fucked into one person.” That he is willing to go so far to embody this idea is thrillingly, gloriously radical. Cape Flats Calling | The Walrus

Die Antwoord is radical but true-to-life, and personally I can’t get enough of their Zef flow. Enter The Ninja is my favorite track but the whole album is sublimely groundbreaking. I love the lyrics, the vision, the creativity, and the fierce (but IMO positive) energy. Expect Die Antwoord to tour in Europe/USA this year, and if the video below is any indication, it looks like the show will be next level.